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Tuesday, March 05, 2002
President Hosni Mubarak said that his message to American President George W.Bush during their Tuesday Summit would focus on the Midle East issues , which the Egyptian President described as very complicated . In an interview with Jim Clancy of CNN's Q&A, Mubarak pointed out that they should find out a way out of the current crisis and continued acts of violence . Excerpts from the interview: President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, thank you so much for being with us Q&A. Let me begin by asking you, what's the message you'll take to President George. W. Bush when you meet him on Tuesday? MUBARAK: The main message or the main question which is going to be discussed is the Middle East. I think the Middle East is a crucial issue. It's a very complicated problem which effects the whole area, effects the interests of the United States, our interests, and the interests of the countries in the area. And it is so important to discuss it and try to find an outlet to the problem which is existing now and the violence which is going on. A second issue may be also the way that reparations (ph) will be discussed. Although we have no problem, but we have to discuss it anyway when I come here. CLANCY: The fundamentals of the Middle East, a lot of people have put attention on the Saudi peace proposal. Others point to it and say that this kind of a proposal has been on the table not once, but several times, in the past, that it rests on nothing but the U.N. resolutions and the willingness, or lack of willingness, of all sides to reach that kind of an agreement. MUBARAK: Look, the Saudi proposal that was only in a sense ideas, is confirming all what has been declared before. The U.N. resolutions -- but the point is, what is going to happen? The proposal is very good. It is repeated several times. And you have so many proposals on the table, the point is how we implement these proposals. How we put an end to the violence which is existing in the Middle East. This is the question. CLANCY: The situation, in terms of what is on the table, has not changed. But the situation on the ground has certainly changed. Why has it unraveled so far, perhaps not so fast, but so steadily? MUBARAK: Look, since the peace process started since the initiative of President Sadat and the war in the 1970's, never has been such a situation. In November 1977 is now about how many years? 24, 25 years. Never has been this kind of escalation in all of this time. So I think something should be done, now. Otherwise, the situation will be much more complicated. And this will help to generate new groups that will be unable to work inside the West Bank and Gaza.In this case, they are going to work outside. We have to avoid this. We shouldn't let this situation escalate more and more. CLANCY: Both sides seem to be involved in nothing but a blame game. Palestinians blame the Israelis. Many Arab states blame the Israelis for the current predicament. The Israelis, the United States, others, blame the Palestinians, saying a conscious decision was made to take this, to use the strategy of violence. MUBARAK: Look, we can say they are blaming the Israelis for one simple reason -- the Israelis are using the war gear to fight the Palestinians. That's why they have the sympathy of the people in the Arab world, maybe the whole world, using artillery and tanks and airplanes on the Palestinians in this war here. So most of the Arabs are blaming the Israelis. So are we going to leave the situation to escalate as it now, more and more? It will reach a point where it will be very difficult to make separation and bring the two parties to the table. We have to work, whether we like it or not, to bring the two parties to the table and negotiate. This will be the only window of hope for the people at least to start calming down. And the Palestinians should take back their occupied land, just to help the people, to slow down the tension, and to have a change in the atmosphere of the whole Arab world, and in the whole world. CLANCY: But, Mr. President, we have to be realistic. The possibility of returning to the 1967 borders does not exist. MUBARAK: The resolution says that, but they have to sit. They have to sit at the table and negotiate. This is what happened with Menachem Begin between Egypt and Israel. At the beginning, I attended a meeting as a vice president with Menachem Begin and President Sadat. The first proposal for the withdrawal was to give us 50 percent of Sinai. Sadat was very nervous, so Menachem Begin said we will negotiate. It ended that we took back all our land. Maybe in the Palestinian territories, it is different than that. And also, in Syria also, they will not accept foresaking even one inch of their land. So I think the 1960 is a basis, but let them sit at the table. We want to bring them to the table. Whatever they agree on, nobody will oppose it. CLANCY: They have been there before. They have sat across the table. They have come close to a deal. Despite whatever progress was made, it has unraveled. It has unraveled in funerals and death and tragedy. MUBARAK: I will tell you something about that. I remember that last December, last year, they were sitting at the table after the Clinton administration, Clinton proposal. Although it was not accepted in the beginning, and I begged Clinton just to meet the Palestinian, to listen to their views. He agreed. He met the Palestinian leader, and he found that something should be done. We urged them to sit at the table. They sat in Tabaa. They were about to reach an agreement, but the time was running so quickly and Clinton left office. But the point is, there is an atmosphere of distrust between the Palestinians and the Israelis. CLANCY: And it's worse. MUBARAK: Yes, since. When Netanyahu has signed, he implemented maybe 20 percent of the agreement, and he dropped the other part. The same thing with Barak. He signed an agreement, then he implemented 1/3 of it, then after that he started to postpone for one reason or another, the other parts, until Sharon came. Sharon said no, I don't agree about all these negotiations. I want to start from scratch. He seemed to have his own plan in his mind. I am afraid of the present situation. It would help the American interest and it would help us in the area, and it would help the defense of the United States. So we have to do something. We have to be tough with both sides. We should bring them, whether they like it or not, to the table, and let them negotiate. And we'll help them to reach an agreement or reach a conclusion. CLANCY: But as you described some of the problems with the successive governments of Israel, so to there was a problem, a promise made by Yasser Arafat, right here in Washington on the White House lawn, and that was to abandon armed force as a means of negotiation, if you will. And right now, Israelis in their country, they've lost all confidence in doing a deal with Arafat. MUBARAK: My friend, you come to a very difficult question, again. I cannot believe them both on that. Who is starting? Who started the violence? Who started, it is not clear to us. Everybody is blaming the other. But the point is, the land is occupied by the Israelis since 1967. What do you tell the people here? CLANCY: What do you tell the people? You are the senior Arab statesman... MUBARAK: Tell what people? CLANCY: Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres, they come to visit you. What goes on in those meetings? What do you tell them? MUBARAK: We kept telling them, we kept telling Arafat, try to eliminate the violence. Last December the violence reached the minimum from the state of Arafat, but Sharon did not go ahead in negotiations or he didn't agree then. I sent to meet with him the foreign minister to discuss with him the issue. He told him, we need seven days without violence. Of course, to tell seven days or one week or ten days without violence, it is nearly impossible. Somebody may shoot another. You cannot control every single person. CLANCY: Is that what you told Shimon Peres? MUBARAK: I told him several times, and he agreed with that. He understands very well, the situation, Shimon Peres. But the point is:Is Sharon going to agree with what Shimon Peres says? I tell you, no. Because Shimon Peres has discussed these issues with others, and Sharon made a veto. When our foreign minister met with Sharon and they discussed the situation, in an attemp to help change the atmosphere, Sharon told him I need seven days without one single bullet to be released. So I told him, on day number seven, if somebody released a bullet, how are you going to consider this? He said, oh, we'll have to make a new assessment. There is a will, there is a way. There is no will, there is no way. CLANCY: Do you think there is no will? MUBARAK: I don't think that. CLANCY: Let's turn. Certainly, the Israeli-Palestinian crisis is a major thing, but one of the things that you will have to discuss here is the war on terrorism and the reports that the United States is going to attack Iraq. Productive or counterproductive? Necessary or unnecessary? MUBARAK: I don't want to go through this point publicly, but we have to consult all of the friends there. We have asked the Iraqis to comply with the security council resolution, to avoid any escalation. I think we shouldn't open so many fronts in this period of time, because this, all in one area, will have a bad effect on all of us. So we have to be very careful of that. CLANCY: When you look at the war on terrorism and the way that people think about the United States in the Arab and Muslim world... MUBARAK: You mean Afghanistan? CLANCY: The war in Afghanistan, but also... MUBARAK: It started in Afghanistan. I tell you something very important. I have had meetings with so many people. Religious and non-religious people. They did not ask about Afghanistan. They were asking about the holy places in Palestine. Afghanistan is completely different than the issue that is existing in our area. In Afghanistan, you are fighting terrorists. We suffer from terrorism a lot. We suffer from those people who were in Afghanistan fighting the Soviet forces there. They were called from Egypt and all others countries as Mujahideen. They were well trained and they went there, to Peshawar, to fight the Soviet forces and take up patrol. After the withdrawal of the Soviet forces, these people found themselves jobless. They were being picked up by some countries in the area and then were being used for terrorism, in our country and in other countries. So we suffered a lot from terrorism. CLANCY: So you support the war on terror, but when it comes to issues like Iraq and others, that directly effect you in the Middle East, you're concerned? MUBARAK: I'll tell you something, I support the United States in the fight against terror. I've said it several times. It's an international phenomenon. We need a conference for the terrorists. Nobody listened to me. Now it is a must. We have to fight terrorists, and since the first minute, I supported the United States in its fight against terrorism. CLANCY: What do you think changed on September 11th? What changed on September 11th, last year, when the World Trade Center collapsed, the Pentagon was hit? MUBARAK: What changed? CLANCY: In terms of everyone's attitudes and your views. MUBARAK: I just try to remember what I said before. Fighting terrorism is a must. So many countries in the world didn't listen to that. After the 11th of September, everybody realized the dangers. Terrorism now is an international phenomenon. The United States is fighting terrorism now, after the 11th of September. It's very important, but it is a long way. Don't ever think that you've finished fighting in Afghanistan. It is not yet finished. That the terrorist groups are only in Afghanistan. They are everywhere. So it's a very important issue which all countries should help and support. CLANCY: The Gallup organization polled some 10,000 Muslims in nine Arab or Muslim countries, asking them what they thought of the United States, what they thought of the war on terror. Most of them didn't believe that it was Arabs behind the attack. Most of them said they don't like the United States. What that poll didn't answer was why. MUBARAK: Not to that extent they don't like the United States. I heard this slogan here several times, that the Arabs don't like the United States. The point is, not because of fighting terrorism in Afghanistan. The feeling of injustice which they have in the Middle East, this creates a bad atmosphere. Although the United States is trying to its maximum, but we ask them to do more for that. CLANCY: Is that what you will ask President Bush? MUBARAK: Yes, for sure. CLANCY: Do you think that's what's missing in the equation right now, is someone to do as President Carter did? MUBARAK: This administration came at a very delicate time, to fight terrorism though fighting there and solving problems here and there. There are lots of problems all over the world. I think now we have to focus also on the Middle East, because the Middle East, if we are going to leave it, and these escalations are going to go on, this will be the biggest source of terrorism more and more. It will generate new terrorist groups, a new generation of terrorists. We have to be very careful. If you don't believe it, sometime you will believe what I am saying. CLANCY: President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, we're going to leave it there. Thank you very much. MUBARAK: Thank you very much. |
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